Curse

cataphract · Jun 10, 2011, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnicornStampede

Listen

We're better off having the game actually active and being able to play GvG, along with people abusing the system, then nobody gvging because there's no incentive to play.

If balthazar faction, champion title points, guild rank and competition aren't incentive enough I don't know what is. Furhtermore, RR cannot seriously be called "playing".

Next GvG popularity update: Killed players and henchies drop ecto.

Shadar · Jun 10, 2011, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Pretty sure noone playing gvg before this update asked or cared for strongboxes. Add abusable reward, you get abusers playing the format, not the we-care-about-pvp crowd (history repeats itself, see: HB)
Anet failing at logic, as usual. And I'm /care.

cantalus · Jun 10, 2011, 09:59 AM // 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadar

Pretty sure noone playing gvg before this update asked or cared for strongboxes. Add abusable reward, you get abusers playing the format, not the we-care-about-pvp crowd (history repeats itself, see: HB)
Anet failing at logic, as usual. And I'm /care.

yes, just remove the damn things, and better a small population that wants to play for the right reasons than a big population that sees it as a new way of proving they're good cause they've got more shinny crap bought with the profits of cheating

UnicornStampede · Jun 10, 2011, 10:03 AM // 10:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

If balthazar faction, champion title points, guild rank and competition aren't incentive enough I don't know what is. Furhtermore, RR cannot seriously be called "playing".

Next GvG popularity update: Killed players and henchies drop ecto.

Well if balthazar faction, fame, competition, and drops from the hoh chest aren't incentive enough, I don't know what is.

Well if balthazar faction, codex points, competition, and being "honorable" aren't incentive enough, I don't know what is.

Well if alliance faction, balthazar faction, competition, and knowing you are helping your fellow luxon/kurzick allegiance aren't incentive enough, I don't know what is.

And they should take out experience and gold from quests, because knowing you helped that family in ascalon/whatever should be good enough reward for you.

And they should take out the chest in UW since knowing you took down Dhuum should be reward enough for you.

And you're not just facing the forfeit guilds, you are facing the casual guilds that want to get strongboxes. And having the forfeit guilds syncing actually makes it active because there are a lot of guilds who say "yeah let's try to fight the sync guilds to improve our rating by getting +4/+5s from them, because everyone knows the better rating you have, the bigger your epeen is." What happens since a lot of guilds have that thought, they end up playing each other.

I'll say my stance on this again, i don't really care about people getting a lot of money, i just care about being able to play GvG, which was extremely hard to do before this update since none of the casual guilds wanted to play.

I Am Not Ok · Jun 10, 2011, 10:10 AM // 10:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

If balthazar faction, champion title points, guild rank and competition aren't incentive enough I don't know what is. Furhtermore, RR cannot seriously be called "playing".

Next GvG popularity update: Killed players and henchies drop ecto.

this

and i never faced any sync team afer update, so dunno how often this happens?

Rice Farm · Jun 10, 2011, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnicornStampede

I'll say my stance on this again, i don't really care about people getting a lot of money, i just care about being able to play GvG, which was extremely hard to do before this update since none of the casual guilds wanted to play.

this^.

If you take out the boxes from GvG, and not the other PvP places, what do you think casual guilds will play?

It would be like if UW had a chest and FoW didn't, which one would you expect to see players play more?

Urcscumug · Jun 10, 2011, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathiastemplar

This was meant to encourage more people to play GvG.

You can't simply "encourage" individuals to play a team game.

And we've seen what the boxes have accomplished.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nologic

Well they havent done anything wrong this time, it's the player base that are doing it wrong.

If something is possible in a game, it will be done. And abused. One of the first rules of game design (hell, any system design).

The only solution I see is to make sync not possible anymore and to remove absolutely all PvP rewards and titles. Have just per player and per guild stats (wins/losses), and the ladder purely as an ordered list (wins, losses and win/lose ratio).

You play for the fun of it or you don't play. And any serious rewards and bragging rights should come solely from tournaments where you show up and play in person. No kind of sport is complete without the act of live demonstration of performance.

Obviously, it's too late for such a radical solution. Here's hoping they will apply this in GW2.

*lemming* · Jun 10, 2011, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Do casual guilds play?

lursey · Jun 10, 2011, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rice Farm

this^.

If you take out the boxes from GvG, and not the other PvP places, what do you think casual guilds will play?

It would be like if UW had a chest and FoW didn't, which one would you expect to see players play more?

cannot be compared, before there wasn't a chest or something but you can see the distinction can be drawn from ectos and shards, in pve it ultimately depends on the environment, player vs environment.

papryk · Jun 10, 2011, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urcscumug

The only solution I see is to make sync not possible anymore and to remove absolutely all PvP rewards and titles.

or just shutdown GW servers. all problems solved

Still Number One · Jun 10, 2011, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Do casual guilds play?

They stopped playing early 2008.

Rice Farm · Jun 10, 2011, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

cannot be compared, before there wasn't a chest or something but you can see the distinguish can be drawn from ectos and shards, in pve it ultimately depends on the environment, player vs environment.

The distinguish between ectos and shards was drop rate.

lursey · Jun 10, 2011, 11:54 AM // 11:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rice Farm

The distinguish between ectos and shards was drop rate.

I was trying to say the environment, which includes, item, item drop rate, monster, difficulty and length of the map, etc that decide how many players will play in the game or map.

Rice Farm · Jun 10, 2011, 11:59 AM // 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

I was trying to say the environment, which includes, item, item drop rate, monster, difficulty and length of the map, etc that decide how many players will play in the game or map.

The UW analogy was arbitrary, my point is most casual players will go to the place with the reward (kids going to the barber shop that gives lollipops at the end of it, instead of the one that doesn't.) . And GvG is harder and takes longer to form, and you add no reward to that, most casual guilds will stop playing GvG.

lursey · Jun 10, 2011, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rice Farm

The UW analogy was arbitrary, my point is most casual players will go to the place with the reward (kids going to the barber shop that gives lollipops at the end of it, instead of the one that doesn't.) . And GvG is harder and takes longer to form, and you add no reward to that, most casual guilds will stop playing GvG.

still you have to first establish whether the kid would like the lollipop, or their parent would allow the kid to go to the barber to have a lollipop instead of a haircut.

item is only a bigger factor of the environment but not the determinant.

whether casual guild will play gvg or not, is determined by the factor of casualness, not the item.

UnicornStampede · Jun 10, 2011, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by lursey

still you have to first establish whether the kid would like the lollipop, or their parent would allow the kid to go to the barber to have a lollipop instead of a haircut.

item is only a bigger factor of the environment but not the determinant.

whether casual guild will play gvg or not, is determined by the factor of casualness, not the item.

Well GvG is the least casual form of PvP, and you are removing the reward from it. It would be like would you want to go to the barber shop close by that has excellent service, or the barber shop an hour away that has terrible service. (length between your house and barber shop=casual level, service=reward)

Ember Silvermoon · Jun 10, 2011, 12:48 PM // 12:48

How about this as a possible alternative – I think this alternative should be possible to implement as tournament reward points are implemented in a similar manner already to my understanding, but just thought I’d put it out there.

Limit the champion strongbox to the GvG daily tournaments only. For any guild to earn strongboxes, they must finish in the top x% of the GvG daily.

Rewards such as champion strongboxes in PvP should really (IMO) be earned by doing well in that PvP format. To prove that you do well in GvG, participate in the GvG Daily. Winning a few matches and coming out in that top percentile should earn you a champion strongbox in addition to tournament reward points. The higher you place, the more strongboxes you receive.

It is still possible to loophole to some extent I guess if all guilds win an equal number of times - perhaps the guild's rank as a tiebreaker?

Thoughts on this alternative?

kedde · Jun 10, 2011, 12:58 PM // 12:58

No reward for below 950 rating.
Rare shit only to be rewarded for winning AT's.

Combined with a ban and something that mows down all the idiots farming rp's because of rank N/A it'd be nice.

lursey · Jun 10, 2011, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnicornStampede

Well GvG is the least casual form of PvP, and you are removing the reward from it. It would be like would you want to go to the barber shop close by that has excellent service, or the barber shop an hour away that has terrible service. (length between your house and barber shop=casual level, service=reward)

that depends on how you want the reward to be defined in gvg, pvp competitiveness or the ease of getting the strongbox.

the ease of getting the strongbox is quite irrelevant to the point of pvp if you choose the reward is pvp competitiveness.

tealspikes · Jun 10, 2011, 04:23 PM // 16:23

There were many legit guilds who were < 900 rating before the reset. If this whole reward thing does work and new players come in then we can expect the ladder to expand at least that far down. The point of the elo rating system is put similar skilled teams against each other, not exclude teams for being unskilled. That's what tournaments are for.

If they disallow resigning, syncers will just leave the game instead or manually kill the guild lord with their henchmen.

To fix this problem, we need to address the format itself. One idea is to make it so the Guild Lord cannot be killed before 8 minutes and increase the number of Npcs - boxes can only be obtained after 8 minutes. Teams still have reason to get/prevent moral boosts, kill each other, kill npcs, and build aggression.